Mountaineers Forums

My 19 y.o. son graduated high school in June 2009. He has had a rock climbing course with NOLS and is now finishing his NOLS year in Patagonia. He wants to become a mountianeering guide and, like most, wants to do the 7 summits. There is no doubt in my mind that he will do it!  (We've even talked about him guiding and me offering adventure wedding/funeral services! as I'm ordained clergy) While he's away, I'm charged with gathering some info for him. For instance, to do Everest he needs to be able to ski but he's a snow boarder so what is a good/best way for him to get ski lessons/experience? Also, I would think that any expedition experience would add to his knowledge base but not sure how to even discover if there are apprenticeships or other beginner avenues to gain experience and hone skills. He intends to finish college (he's getting credit for NOLS Patagonia) but wants make sure he's getting and maintaining his skill base. Any ideas? His is talking with the NOLS folks and forming contacts but he (we) is looking for any guidance so that he can live his life's passion. Thanks, in advance, for your help!  Kenn

If he interested in learning to Ski, Steven's Pass is offering a great beginner program where for something like $200 you get 3 lessons and a season pass at the end of it.  (see below).  I'm not sure about the guiding / expedition aspects.  But you might call up some of the local guiding houses (RMI, AAI, etc.) i'm sure they'd know.

Cheers

Josh

 

 

 

" Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} Hey folks, if your friends or family want to learn to ski or snowboard, DON'T PASS UP this opportunity!
 
January is Learn a Snow Sport Month and Stevens Pass is promoting an AWESOME deal. Take three beginner ski/snowboard lessons and you get a season pass good for every day for the rest of the season!

The first lesson is 2 for 1 so bring a friend and split the coast, $80.00 for two people, then sign up for easy starter 2 pack at $129.00 per person, and upon completion of the third lesson you get the season pass.

That's $169 (or $209) for 3 lessons AND a season pass!  The catch is that you HAVE to be a beginner skier or snowboarder.  (Loophole; if you already know how to ski, then learn to snowboard! ...or vise-versa.)
 
Pass it on to all your family and friends; there's no better time to try skiing or snowboarding!

Check it out on Stevens Pass web site.
http://www.stevenspass.com/Stevens/index.aspx

See you on the slopes! - Frank"

 

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"For God could no longer be found in his traditional steeple houses. But seemed to dwell more vividly in the bare austerities of his earths high places.

The AMGA has a fair amount of info on what it takes to be a certified guide:

http://www.amga.com/programs/

(They also have their course listings as well.)

You do not mention when he is done with Patagonia. If it is this season, the forementioned Steven's Pass classes would work. Snoqualmie has something similar as well. Since this is The Mountaineers web site, I'd be remiss not to mention taking lessons at Meany Lodge where the training would be more backcountry and not groomed resort skiing.

As far as beginner or apprenticeships, the local guiding organizations. (RMI in particular) hire non-certified people as guides. 

Hope this helps.

Thanks for your response! This does sound like a good deal. Unfortunately, he won't be back from Patagonia until March, 20, 2010. I'm not sure but I think ski season in North America is waning by then but there may be something! Peace

Thanks! He found the AMGA site and really liked what they're up to (no pun intented)! In fact, he said, "They are the Sh*t!" so I know he'll be checking it out when he gets back on 3-20-10. RMI is new to me so I'll check it out and hopefully get some info that will help. We live in Pennsylvania so I think he'll have to travel to get much of the experience he'll really need. Thanks again! Kenn

Well now that we know you live in PA. Timberline Lodge on Mt. Hood has skiing year round. (Although they usually close in September for lift maintenance.) I know they have ski racing school in the summer, but they might also have learn to ski classes as well.

http://www.timberlinelodge.com/

Thanks GH...Jesse has been to Mt. Hood for a snowboard and skateboard camp kind of thing so that might be a good option for ski instruction. What is your opinion on developing a skill set for mountaineering, i.e. keep taking NOLS type courses or what? At this point, I think he'd be a "beast of burden" if he could go on a trek with experienced climbers or others just so he can live the life. Quite frankly, I think we'd consider moving to support him in his passion!

I don't mean to be 'difficult' but there's a lot of vertical feet and experience between where your son is and guiding the Seven Summits.  For instance, the lack of a single skill (like skiing) is not what he lacks to guide Everest--it's many hundreds of thousands of feet of vertical experience and years of judgement that comes with it in the mountains.  There are many good ski schools in the area.  The sooner he starts the better, and if he's serious there's local snow to be skied about 10-12 months a year.  My regular climbing partner guided for almost 40 years and owned a major guide service.  Having guided 6 of the 7 summits (and almost having died in an accident on the 'warm up climb'--Ama Dablam) he had the advantage of many dozens of first ascents and new routes (including one on the S Face of McKinley).  I expect his advice would be to climb, climb, climb.  Go on small independent expeditions.  Climb new routes.  A guide is an experienced climber, first, and a 'good parent' to his clients, second.  Contacting all of the guide services is a great place to start his networking and they will, no doubt, steer him on the right path.

If he's serious he won't have any problems getting and maintaining his skill base--nothing will stand between him and that. 

Hi Bob, I don't consider your comments as being "difficult" though I do appreciate your sensitivity! You speak to the original intent of my query. He may one day guide the 7 summits but his initial intent is to just climb them, after having gained enough experience. When I stated that he wants to become a "mountain guide", I meant that as a vocational path that he is choosing. I noticed on the AMGA site that just to become a certified Rock Climbing guide one needs 5 years experience. An important facet, of mine, in joining this forum was to find out how does one get legitimate experience. As he is just starting, I thought taking NOLS courses, was a good start but as you state "climb, climb, climb" is what will really give him experience.  I can't afford to send him to a bunch of NOLS courses just to get training and experience so I guess another way to ask my question is where does one find/meet those who are  responsible and can provide mentorinig/teaching skills?  For instance, I don't want, and I'm sure he wouldn't want, to go out with a bunch of rookies and climb any available vertical surface that is handy and really call that "experience" (though I bet that is where many got their start!). I have to say I was surprised to see that one as young as 18 can apply to AMGA for certification given the 5 years experience pre-requisite. I don't doubt that he is making some connections through NOLS but it's not like there is a mountaineers bar ( at least in PA) where folks gather and plan their next ascent and oh by the way here's this veritable newbie that would like to join us, is that okay?! He fully expects that he may need to move to a "mountain" state ( and my wife and I may join in!) so that he can then find like minded folks to gain experience. I'm not sure if I'm really making myself clear or not but I hope you and others on this site appreciate my intent and can continue to offer ideas. I do appreciate all the commments offered. Peace, Kenn

kenn682:

What is your opinion on developing a skill set for mountaineering, i.e. keep taking NOLS type courses or what? At this point, I think he'd be a "beast of burden" if he could go on a trek with experienced climbers or others just so he can live the life. Quite frankly, I think we'd consider moving to support him in his passion!

I moved from NJ to Washington for the specific reason of climbing. I think a change of venue is important if he wishes to gain experience in the mountains. While you can gain experience not living in a mountain state, it is a little more difficult and requires more money for air fare. Here in Seattle it is easy to fall in with people who climb and there are plenty of experienced people willing to go out with the less experienced. (Our club is deeply rooted in that type of experience.)  Depending on what his skill level is, he could potentially join the club and take one of the alpine climbing classes offered. Unfortunately his return from South America will be too late to take a course this year, but he could see about that for next year.

Thank you, again, GH! I really am trying to get a sense of what people have done to gain experience and even what they wish they didn't do. It surprises me that no books have been mentioned...maybe it's a given? I've looked in PA for mountianeering clubs and it is mainly if not only, the gym type climbing faces, which I'm sure have there place, but as someone alluded to earlier climb and climb many and different faces. I was thinking earlier about the 5 year climbing experience pre-requisite of AMGA and wondered what that meant. If one climbed for one week each year for 5 years is that really 5 years experience ( I wouldn't think so but what do I know!)? I realize there is much to be gained by just "doing it" but as any of you already know there are better, i.e. more responsible, ways of gaining experience, that will have its share of mistakes, that one can learn from and yet contribute to one's resume. P.S. I sometimes think Jesse, my son, will find/stumble upon the right people and it will just come together but I'd like to be able to learn/discover now as much as possible so as to avoid too many "if I'd only known then" moments. Cheers

If your looking for a book, start with the bible.  "Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills".  It's put out by the club and is probably the best all around climbing / mountain experience book you can find.  Once he's finished that then he might move on to more specialized topics. 

And having him move to a "mountain" state is almost certainly necessary.  As several people have pointed out, climbing experience isn't measured in years, but in thousands of vertical feet.  And for what it sounds like he wants to do he'll need some rock climbing skill, but he'll need alpine experience more than anything.  I'd say look at Washington, Colorado, California, and maybe Utah, Montana, or Wyoming as good places to be.  Any place with lots of big mountains nearby!  And stumbling on the right people can happen but he'll need a few years in the mountains before he's even ready to start tackling serious climbs.  More than anything else climbing is really an apprentice ship. 

 

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"For God could no longer be found in his traditional steeple houses. But seemed to dwell more vividly in the bare austerities of his earths high places.

Thanks for your input...I ordered the book before replying to you (it's coming form Florida of all places)! I'm glad you validate the vertical feet climbed v years, as that makes more sense to me. I think, too, that my son, at least, needs to move west for the very reasons that have been stated. At the moment I, if I could leave today, would head for Wyoming or Colorado so I'm glad you include those states (I think I was conceived in Colorado so returning to the "scene of the crime" has a certain charm). A comment that someone made intrigues me and that is that a friend of a poster to me said his freind was in the guiding business for 40 years. I assumed that climbing, at least, would be a younger man's affair but it seems there's more longevity than I assumed...is that correct? At 53 y.o. I don't think I'll hit the 7 summits having no experience whatsoever but I'd be willing to at least begin to explore mountaineering to whatever degree my body would allow. Quite frankly, I'd be happy to hold down a base camp for others. I know he and we are early in the process but I get a certain thrill when I consider the possibilities of making a move west to to supoport our son and to create a life of simply living so that we may simply live. I read a quote the other day that I'm sure many here could appreciate ( I don't remember the author!) but; "In primitive society and culture nobody has a watch but everybody has time. In modern society and culture everybody has a watch but nobody has time."  Cheers, Kenn

 

One of my more enjoyable climbing partners and mentors didn't start climbing until she was in her 50's.  Climbing is really something that is more dependant on mentality and perseverence, than anything else. If you talk to climbers, most everyone agrees that the physical side of the equation is the one that's easier to address anyways. Further there is such a large difficulty range both in technical difficulty and in cardiovascular challenge that there is really something for almost everyone who's interestest. 

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"For God could no longer be found in his traditional steeple houses. But seemed to dwell more vividly in the bare austerities of his earths high places.

You have made my day!